Posts by Jeremy C

23

Wake Up -- Possible Local Mini-Scandal

by West70 in

at the risk of causing some excitement around here, and since i haven't posted anything here in a long time, i thought i would post some links which maybe someone here can provide a reasonable explanation as to why a north dakota congregation's name would be on what possibly is a contract to provide home health care services to possibly some elderly jw -- but in illinois ????

click on the links on the following webpages: .

kingdom hall of jehovahs witnesses .

Jeremy C

I don’t think that the indiscretions of a few local yokel JWs is of much interest. Nor should it be. I don’t intend to be disrespectful to anyone, but I find it quite trivial and boring that a situation like this - which is filled with so much conjecture - would command any attention.

We all saw how Jehovah’s Witnesses responded to the United Nations scandal (a real scandal which attracted international attention). Witnesses tripped over themselves in their attempts to rationalize, justify, and excuse the Watchtower-UN affiliation. Traveling overseers and elders stumbled, mumbled, and fumbled in their apologetic excuses for the Watchtower’s involvement, with no hint of embarrassment. As of today, the vast majority of JWs are hardly aware that it occurred. Most JWs simply do not care about the organization’s actions unless it affects their lives personally.

Therefore, if Jehovah’s Witnesses did not care about the conduct of the Watchtower leadership in regards to an international scandal, what makes anyone think that they would care about the possible indiscretions of a few fly-swatting JWs in North Dakota?

17

You Don't Want to Tell People About Jehovah?

by cognac in

jw
friends

told hubby that i won't go out in service because i believe that the preaching work was already done in the 1st century.. he said "you don't want to tell people about jehovah?".

i said "no".

i also said that when we move i have no intentions of going back to the kh.

Jeremy C

He said "You don't want to tell people about Jehovah?"

This is a very familiar guilt inducing cliché that has been used by the Watchtower with a sickening repetitiveness. The Watchtower is quite fond of resorting to ad hominem attacks on those who do not agree with the door-to-door concept which has become a tradition in their organization. They have done a very sorry job of defending their stance, and often do not even attempt to do, but instead choose to label those who do not agree with them.

An entire multi-page thread could be devoted to deconstructing the Watchtower’s fallacious reasoning regarding their "preaching work". In the first century, the focus was on the name of Jesus, not Yahweh. Followers took on the name of Christians, and gathered "in his name", not Yahweh’s. The thrust of the preaching message in the first century was that of Christ’s saving power, not salvation through organizational membership. And, according to apostolic writings, Jesus had already been enthroned as King upon his assention to heaven. There was not any suggestion of a "second enthronement" nineteen hundred years later.

Upon examining the book of Galatians, it is clear that they are "preaching a new gospel"; something that Paul warned about. To try to explain these things to a devoted Watchtower Witness is to try to nail jello to a tree. After a while, the futility of attempting to reason on such matters becomes obvious.

70

Talk by brother Herd (long)

by moomanchu in

the stars fall from heaven?

~sigh~ and youll fall across the finish line into the new world!

we dont want that brothers.

Jeremy C

It is frightening to contemplate how millions of people are giving their lock-step allegiance to delusional men such as this. It would almost be humorous if it were not for the fact that these men are crafting policies and dictates which profoundly affect the lives of millions.

What is most notable in talks such as these, is the elaborate and fantastical speculations that these men put forth. Jehovah's Witnesses do not view such grandiose immaginings as speculative, but view them as authoritative - from God himself. All of this does nothing to truly build people up spiritually, but only feeds into their illusory organizational superiority; and their world of make believe. All of this does little more than to add to the disappointments already experienced by people who have been duped too many times.

A "Slave" that was truly "Faithful and Discreet" would have certainly shown a responsible restraint throughout the years by keeping their lips in check. This is one slave that just does not get it. One would think that the embarassments of the past would move them to show a little more humility and shrewdness.

21

30,000 Jehovah's Witnesses to convene at Nutter Center

by blondie in

jw
friends

now there is any appropriate place for jws.. http://www.daytondailynews.com/l/content/oh/story/living/religion-faith/2008/07/08/ddn070808conventionweb.html.

by khalid moss.

staff writer.

Jeremy C

What struck me as ironic much more than the venue name is what is printed on the convention badges: "Guided by God's Spirit". Jehovah's Witnesses do not generally view themselves as individually guided by Holy Spirit, but instead are guided by the "Slave Class" through the Watchtower's directives. There is no place for individual applications of scripture, or personal contemplation upon life decisions based upon one's conscience. The "Slave Class" does this for them. The Biblical concept of the Christian being infused with "Holy Spirit" has been replaced by the concept of the Christian being governed by the "Spirit-directed organization".

The badges therefore should read: "Guided by the teachings and rulings of the Governing Body of the organization that is guided by God's Spirit." A large badge indeed. Perhaps it could be replaced with the endearing "sandwich" signs of the Rutherford era. It could be a "sandwich badge". That way, JWs could not take it off when they go to their hotel lobbies and restaurants without being caught.

24

End Times Preaching and Armageddon - has the WTS made a new push on this?

by insearchoftruth in

my wife has been an on again, off again sympathizer of the jws.

she recieved a phone call this past weekend from a sister who had attempted to study with her in the past and all of a sudden she is reading all the wts literature she can on the meaning of armageddon and the topic of paradise earth.

has the wts started a new push on this topic as of late??

Jeremy C

Seeker4 touched on something that is very important. Economic distress and geo-political instabilities are the Watchtower's greatest assets. It is in these cycles that many people begin to search for an emotional refuge from the perplexing anxieties and uncertainties of life.

I think that it is beneficial to consider the growth of Jehovah's Witnesses prior to 1975. All indications seemed to support the Watchtower's (or Fred Franz's) end times chronology that was published in 1966. There was all of the civil unrest and violence here in the U.S. during the late 1960s, which included the assisinations of Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy. The U.S. was bogged down in Vietnam. Then, there was the 1970s with the oil embargo / gasoline shortages, Watergate, the humiliating American withdrawal from Saigon, and the general malaise of the economy. Who could deny all of the obvious evidence that the end was near?

I believe that cycles repeat themselves. The Watchtower organization tends to get caught up in these cycles. Jehovah's Witnesses deperately want to see evidence that the "end is near". They eagerly want to witness the "birth pangs of distress", so that they can be freed from this "system of things".

It is interesting that garybuss used the analogy of MLM schemes. I have often noted that the Watchtower organization is operated similarly to a multi-level marketing corporation. There is a pyramid authority structure, a product to sell (Armageddon), and an organizational obsession with numbers, figures, and percentages. Just as the MLM sucker looks for the "big payout" whereby they can quit their regular job and retire as a millionaire, the JW always watches the news looking for the "Big A" whereby they will get to retire to their paradise home with its fruit trees, and peacocks in the front yard.

56

The CO asked for more contributions

by outofthebox in

jw
friends

it looks like the wt is running out of money fast.

few weeks ago we had the co visit and he told us in the ms and elders meeting that he had never seen a letter from the gb like this one, but then he went ahead and read it.

the letter basically said: "the contributions are down and there is more people in the congregation.

Jeremy C

Remember several years ago, the bOrg started the Planned Giving arrangement. Legal Dept arranged for some brothers with big bucks experience to travel around and meet with rich dubs and explain how they could donate to the bOrg and get super tax deductions/avoidance.

Billy, I certainly remember this arrangement being announced and discussed. Even while I was a loyal Witness, I found this arrangement to be downright tawdry. To me, it sounded eerily reminiscent of the televangelists who liked to grope for their follower's wallets. However, I was naive to expect the Watchtower to be on some higher plane of spirituality. They are afterall, another religion with a clergy and laity.

I just got to thinking that it is a shame that they disfellowshipped Michael Jackson. He could have left his estate to the Watchtower as well. I'm sure the Neverland Ranch with its monkeys and flamingos would have provided the Watchtower with a healthy dose of cash.

They better begin hitting up Prince before he gets disfellowshipped as well.

56

The CO asked for more contributions

by outofthebox in

jw
friends

it looks like the wt is running out of money fast.

few weeks ago we had the co visit and he told us in the ms and elders meeting that he had never seen a letter from the gb like this one, but then he went ahead and read it.

the letter basically said: "the contributions are down and there is more people in the congregation.

Jeremy C

Here is a conspiracy theory regarding the letter:

The letter is used to make the COs realize that the money is dwindling thus leading them to eventually accepting the new rumored CO arrangement when ever it is unveiled.....In the mean time a few JWs will pony up some more cash.

I think that’s quite plausible. The elimination of the Circuit Overseer arrangement is going to deeply sadden; even disillusion many long-time COs. I believe that the Society is going to have some very bitter brothers on their hands. The Watchtower leadership needs to provide these long standing brothers with a very good reason for such a drastic change. If these traveling overseers are repeatedly made aware of the Society’s lagging contributions; this may make such brothers more willing to accept the new change.

There is another thing that these letters could accomplish. If the traveling overseers eventually realize that the elimination of their positions is due to lagging contributions, they are much more likely to blame the rank and file Witnesses instead of the Governing Body. The last thing that the GB needs right now are hundreds of embittered ex-Circuit Overseers - not in the internet age!

10

explaining mexico-malawi

by agent zero in

i was trying to explain the mexico-malawi thing to someone without saying any direct accusations like "they're just after the real estate" or "they needed some big-publicity persecution"(because that would just shut the door on that convo.

) but i told all the basic facts, about not being registered as a religion in mexico and all that.

.....here's some of the response i got:.

Jeremy C

"that shows the faithfulness of these brothers to still be going to the meetings even without song, prayer and bibles! no other religion would do that!"

This remark is quite typical of Jehovah’s Witnesses and reveals a gross ignorance about other Christian churches around the world. Almost all of JWs get their information about other churches from Watchtower literature; via Awake articles. There, you will find the most sordid stories about other churches that have been cherry-picked by the writing department for their scandalous nature. Therein lies the problem.

Jehovah’s Witnesses receive very limited, selective information. One could almost compare it with the kind of information that the state run news services of the Soviet Union would present to their citizens: information which painted the West in the most decadent light, and then presented "Mother Russia" as always smelling like a rose.

Most JWs are satisfied with the selective information they receive from their "Mother Organization". Many of them would be quite surprised however, to discover that they have been given only a tiny piece of the picture.

You may want to begin gradually, by presenting some seeming innocent information that might begin to open their minds. For example: go the the library and find some books on Christian history; particularly those which deal with the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. You will find countless historical accounts of Christians in other countries who showed a faith equal to, and sometimes surpassing that of JWs.

Here’s a couple of examples that I discovered while doing my own research: there were Christians in China who were translating Bibles long before the WT Society came on the scene. There are currently millions of non-denominational Christians in China who meet secretly in private homes; often risking imprisonment.

In India, there are currently hundreds of thousands of Christians who are being persecuted, beaten, and jailed over their refusal to comply with various political affairs, and their refusal to discriminate people based on the caste system. Does the WT ever mention or compliment these people? No way.

What does all of this have to do with the Mexico / Malawi issue? I believe that you first need to kindly educate the average JW on things that they do not know about other Christians and the faith that they have demonstrated. JWs live with a false illusion that they have been the only people to refuse to compromise their faith. History proves them false. If you kindly share some of the many historical examples with them regarding the uncompromising faith of other Christians around the world, it may begin to open the door to their stubborn and closed mind.

56

The CO asked for more contributions

by outofthebox in

jw
friends

it looks like the wt is running out of money fast.

few weeks ago we had the co visit and he told us in the ms and elders meeting that he had never seen a letter from the gb like this one, but then he went ahead and read it.

the letter basically said: "the contributions are down and there is more people in the congregation.

Jeremy C

This was inevitable. Here in the United States, with most of the rank and file members not having a college education, their wages are basically flat; when compared to recent inflation. Rising fuel, energy, food, and healthcare costs are outpacing wages considerably (particularly those of non-college grads).

I believe that immigration has contributed to the rise in congregation attendance figures for many areas. I remember that at a recent circuit assembly here in the Los Angeles area, the District Overseer compared the local circuit’s attendance figures with those of the Spanish. The Spanish circuit was outperforming the English handily.

The Watchtower finds itself in a bind; whereby they want to have it both ways. They want to continue to discourage college, even going so far as to remove elders and ministerial servants over the issue. This will only continue to create an uneducated, dumbed-down membership. But, at the same time, the GB expects this membership to have the financial means to contribute more money. When the money doesn’t roll in, they send out hand-wringing guilt inducement letters to the flock.

It is incredible how out of touch the Watchtower leadership is.

17

My Story - Part 3

by Jeremy C in

my story - part 1. my story - part 2. in my previous thread (part 2) i stated that i would talk about my experience as a regular pioneer in this thread.

all of them took a special interest in me and gave me encouragement.

i told him i would think about it.

Jeremy C

Jeremy, sounds like a young man full of himself!!!! I remember sitting in meetings or conventions hearing young men wax eloquently to sister with such authority......

Yes, Quandry I suppose it did sound that way didn't it? Maybe I did not make it obvious enough that this was a joke. I did not really think this way at that age, I was merely using sarcasm to poke fun at many of the local needs talks given by traveling overseers. Of special note were some of the silly talks directed toward sisters regarding their grooming - talks which amounted to little more than Judaistic finger-wagging.